memory_alphafandomcom-20200223-history
Talk:Impulse drive
This would suggest the proces is similar to Warp. Does that mean that they can power nacelles with plasma from the fusiona array, or isn't it powerfull enough? -- Redge | ''Talk'' 16:30, 17 Aug 2004 (CEST) Please define what you are referring to with the word "This" TOSrules | ''Talk'' 16:08, 24 Aug 2004 (PST) The entire process. But the part that most resembles Warp drive would be: '' The accelerated plasma is passed through the driver coils, thereby a subspace field is generated that improves the propulsive effect.'' -- Redge | ''Talk'' 11:43, 25 Aug 2004 (CEST) it's entirely possible. That would play into my theory about Zefram Cochrane. The biggest problem is how could he invent warp drive at Alpha Centauri, when all he could have at most is a DY-500 converter to Impulse. I theorize that maybe his principle was close enough, that the conversion was not to big a deal. I believe he found Lithium Crystals there which is how he made his break through in Warp Drive. The Woden would have been converted after he got back to Earth as an Ore freighter for that Lithium. The Woden proves that early ships did not have the Nacelles for Warp Drive. TOSrules | ''Talk'' 15:37, 25 Aug 2004 (PST) Star Trek: First Contact makes it clear that Cochrane developed the warp drive on Earth. He obviously moved to Alpha Centuari some time after this. The TNG Technical Manual (from which most of the information in this article is derived, despite it being considered less than canon) makes it clear that the warp plasma used to power the field coils in warp nacelles can only be produced by the warp core. The subspace driver coils merely make the impulse engines significantly more efficient. -67.150.72.22 11:22, 18 Jul 2005 (UTC) : yah, if you buy the erroneous First Contact movie which fly's in the face of real Star Trek. But this is MA which accepts those kind of facts over TOS. --TOSrules 01:47, 3 Sep 2005 (UTC) I don't think that fusion engines can efficiently support warp, anyway. I know the Phoenix used a nuclear fusion power source, but that was designed for immediate short-term use. I really doubt that deuterium fusion gives much more energy centuries later, and thus creates the need for M/AM power. Maybe why they don't use M/AM for impulse is that it's TOO much energy. Think about putting jet fuel into a car. Sure, it goes fast, but it's murder on the engine. --Zeromaru 01:06, 3 Aug 2005 (UTC) How fast? How fast is quarter-, half- and full-impulse? Does full-impulse equal warp 1? --Perfecto 23:10, 2 Sep 2005 (UTC) :As far as I know, it has never been clarified if half impulse means half the speed of light. Although since they do say full impulse at time I suspect it does not mean that at all. After the warp drive was offline in "The Motion Picture" they were continuing at .8 of light speed, these references are the best for knowing the ship's actual speed. --TOSrules 01:47, 3 Sep 2005 (UTC) I read somewhere (I think some technical manual) that full impulse does not equal light-speed. If I am correct, travelling at warp speed prevents time dilation problems from occuring. If full impulse equaled light-speed, you would encounter the time dilation problem, and nobody wants that of course. Enzo Aquarius 01:51, 3 Sep 2005 (UTC) ::actually the idea that quarter/half/full directly equates to velocity is rather physics defying. more likely the term impulse is a derivitive of 'specific impulse', a term used to describe the amount of thrust a drive produces. if veiwed in that light, quarter/half/full means running the drive at 1/4th, 1/2, or maximum thrust. the ships would run the drives to accellerate, and then coast on inertia once reaching a desired velocity. we know subspace tricks are probably used to get hyper-efficency out of the drive. the bit about not wanting to travel too closely to lightspeed is valid though, relitivity bites, especially when you get over 50%c. though the use of subspace tricks likely makes it less harsh. -Mithril 15:38, 23 February 2007 (UTC) Hope I'm not too late to help... Full Impulse doesn't equal light speed, as that is Warp 1. I've seen in several reference materials (including the Interactive Encyclopedia) that Full Impulse equals 1/4 c or 167,000,000 mph (Earth to Luna in 5.38 seconds). Here's a link. http://www.angelfire.com/nj2/startrek/impulse.html Squiggyfm ::I think some people are confused about the nature of impulse; it is fundamentally a thrust based form of propulsion. If the exhaust is leaving the impulse engines at the same speed on all settings of impulse, the difference is one of amount; half impulse is burning twice as much fuel as quarter impulse and produces more thrust because it produces more exhaust. "Quarter", "Half", and "Full" Impulse are most likely measures of acceleration. As there is no wind resistance or other friction in space, only inertia, any ship will continue accelerating until it reaches the maximum velocity allowed by the speed of its exhaust. Unless the exhaust is leaving at different speeds, quarter impulse will eventually reach the same speed as full impulse, it'll just take a lot longer to get there. Fractions of impulse are likely only measures of how fast your accelerating, not how fast you are going. --JCoyote 21:06, 31 October 2006 (UTC) Time Dilation and increase of mass Has it ever been explained how they circumvent the time dilation and increase of mass that occurs when travelling at speeds closely aproaching the speed of light? :Never in canon, although many fans have tried various theories of varying scientific merit... :Also, please take this opportunity to join MA. I left a message on your talk page explaining how, its very simple, just click the link in the corner. Jaz talk | novels 05:14, 11 February 2006 (UTC) Removed from article I removed the following sentence from the article: :The term 'Impulse' is an abbreviation of ''I'nternally '''M'etered PULSE'.'' I heard that somewhere before, but I'm sure it's not from onscreen dialogue. Please decide if it needs to be readded as a background info, and please add a reference! -- Cid Highwind 08:11, 24 May 2006 (UTC) Impulse Manner Could someone please explain to me, how that drive could possibly let a ship go backward if the impulse engines are only at the back of the ship? An exhaust would mean it could only go forward, and would barely be able (read hardly (not) at all) to break (which contradicts how fast ships stop). I don't care much about the TM, they are not considered canon by Paramount, and for good reason: they obviously contradict what's on screen. The only way engine mounts only in one direction could make the ship go forward, backward, sideways, up, and down, would be if they generate an energy field around the ship, can generate this field in multiple shapes, and the shape of the field generated is how the ship moves. Further, if the impulse engines itself generated the subspace field for lowering the ship's mass in normal space; could someone please explain to me, why the Intrepid-class needs to lower its warp nacelles for impulse travel? They wouldn't do anything during impulse speeds, and could just stay up. That only makes any sense, if the subspace field for lowering ship mass, comes from the warp nacelles(, and is more efficiently generated in the lower position, while the up position improves warp travel), which is rather obvious if you ask me. And yes: the fusion reactors can power the warp coils. How else do you think a Romulan Bird of Prey in "Balance of Terror" could have "simple impulse power" and still move at warp speeds? Obviously it's less energy, and thus the speed would be less than with a warp core, but it's still possible. Impulse speeds are a lot faster than .25c. During TOS full impulse was probably around .7c. In the movie era just about .8c, and by TNG it was improved to about .92c. Photon torpedoes can go even faster, just about c. How Fast, part II On the original Enterprise full impulse power should be 0.5c, as Kirk in the Star Trek:The Motion Picture commands, after leaving Spacedock, Scott: "Intermix set bridge. Impulse power at your discretion" Kirk: "Impulse power, Mr. Sulu. Ahead, warp point 5" The Enterprise is traveling 0.8c only after escaping from the wormhole, which was caused by an antimatter imbalance and required full reverse impulse power to reduce the speed of the Enterprise to below warp speed: Kirk: "Wormhole. Get us back on impulse power. Full reverse." Sulu: "Negative helm control, captain. Going reverse on impulse power" Uhura: "Subspace frequencies jammed, sir! Wormhole effect!" Decker: "Negative control from inertial lag will continue for 22.5 seconds before forward velocity slows to sublight speed" After the Enterprise broke through the warp speed barrier (1.01c), full reverse impulse power was used to slow the ship below the speed of light. Since deceleration was lengthy (22.5 seconds for the impulse engines to slow the ship to below warp (light) speed), the deceleration curve left the Enterprise at 0.8c after breaking out of the antimatter-induced wormhole. It is logical to assume that 0.8c is not a speed that is normally requested by impulse engine power (as per Kirk's request for "Impulse power. Ahead, warp .5") and relativistic time failure. Although the source is not canon, the Star Trek:The Next Generation Technical Manual (published 1991, Pocket Books) lists the following details, page 78: "...Today, such time differences to relativistic time failure can interfere with the requirement for close synchronization with Starfleet Command as well as overall Federation timekeeping schemes. Any extended flight at high relativistic speeds can place mission objectives in jeopardy. At times when warp propulsion is not available, impulse flight may be unavoidable, but will require lengthy recalibration of onboard computer clock systems even if contact is maintained with Starfleet navigation beacons. It is for this reason that normal impulse operations are limited to a velocity of 0.25c Efficiency ratings for impulse and warp engines determine which flight modes will best accomplish mission objectives. Current impulse engine configurations achieve efficiencies approaching 85% when velocities are limited to 0.5c." Therefore the Technical Manual also confirms that impulse engines can reach, and indeed are efficient in operation, to 0.5c. Until Mr. Scott acknowledges that the warp engines are available (without a guarantee), no acceleration of the Enterprise is shown above 0.5c --Snake 17:52, 21 December 2006 (UTC) Note: Again, please inspect scenes from Star Trek:The Motion Picture regarding impulse drive speeds. The Enterprise does not accelerate past "warp .5" (.5c) until after Commander Scott acknowledges that warp speed may be available (but needing more flow simulations on the flow sensors). Until the dialog between Kirk and Scott, no dialog is shown regarding the Enterprise accelerating past warp 0.5. The only time the Enterprise is shown as doing "warp .8" is after deaccelerating from warp speed using the impulse engines - that is, the Enterprise is coasting, continuing it's forward movement through space, due to inertia at warp .8– Snake 21:05, 16 February 2007 (UTC) :They were not "coasting", they were HOLDING at Warp .8. For some unexplained (in universe) reason, drive tech in the Trek Universe is such that ships that lose engine power LOSE speed. (examples numerous). :Also, the (lack) of dialogue vis a vis higher warp(decimal) speeds proves nothing in and of itself, esp when we DO have the "Warp .8" reference.Capt Christopher Donovan 10:49, 17 February 2007 (UTC) ::you mind giving us an actual example of ships losing velocity as they loose impulse power? citing 'examples numerous', besides being poor english, is really no help. i for one, having watched a lot of star trek, cannot remember a single incident where loss of impulse power was followed by anything implying loss of velocity. i can remember quite a few scenes where ships were shown to coast along after their drives were destroyed/disabled. for example, look at the mass fleet actions in the dominion war. quite a few ships had their drives disabled onscreen, and they continued on their last course until destroyed. in a mirror darkly, the andorian ship gets its drive knocked out and it continues on, although it obviously still has manuvering thrusters since it banks away trailing gas. -Mithril 16:19, 27 February 2007 (UTC) :you have a good point: :Also, the (lack) of dialogue vis a vis higher warp(decimal) speeds proves nothing in and of itself, esp when we DO have the "Warp .8" reference :but we do not have a DIRECT quote from a character asking for "warp .8" when ACCELERATING, only after DECELERATING from a higher speed. :This is why I claim "0.5c" max impulse power - we have proof of this speed being directly asked for by the commander of the starship from a motionless vehicle situation, but NOT "0.8c" being asked of the impulse drive deck to create, directly. :Only, possibly, sustained from deceleration from a higher speed, which may be possible due to the subspace coils integrated with the impulse drive which keeps the mass of the (already) moving vehicle low enough to maintain the noted speed due to inertia. :The dialog never notes that the impulse deck is the power maintaining 0.8c. :The only dialog we do have notes the impulse deck accelerating to 0.5c after the Captain asks for that speed from a very low speed (thruster) state.-Snake 17:16, 28 February 2007 (UTC) and if you can reach .5c, physics means you can reach much higher. but after .5c, reletivity starts getting really annoying. so if there is a limit to only .5c, it's a burecratic one, much like the 'warp 5 speedlimit' in TNG. a limit imposed on opertions, not a limit due to physics. the best explantion that explains the evidence seen is that Impulse refers to thrust not velocity, and that the only 'speed limit' at impulse is reletivity. -Mithril 18:33, 28 February 2007 (UTC) : the best explantion that explains the evidence seen is that Impulse refers to thrust not velocity, and that the only 'speed limit' at impulse is reletivity. :Very much so. Please note that the commander of a ship asks for impulse power, not impulse "speed". The speed of the vehicle can vary depending upon gravity wells, spacetime distortions, or other phenomena. The commander of a ship asks for relative power output versus maximum attainable from the impulse system, not a specific speed - i.e. "half impulse", "full impulse". :Only in TMP is the commander asking for a specific speed that the impulse engine attain, and therefore it is the only thing we have to go on. At no other time is there quotable dialog which shows impulse equaling to a specific speed, nor does Decker's dialog show that the impulse deck can sustain, over long duration, the quoted speed of 0.8c. It may be sustainable only for a very (very) short period of time until the impulse engine modifies the vehicle velocity back to a sustainable output vs. relativistic speed.-Snake 19:02, 28 February 2007 (UTC) ::: Let's not forget: :::* KIRK: "Warp drive, Mr. Scott. Ahead Warp 1, Mr. Sulu." :::* SULU: "Accelerating to Warp 1, sir. Warp 0.7, 0.8. Warp 1, sir. ::: The warp 0.5 was made before the ship went to warp, the warp 0.7 was during their acceleration to warp 1. Warp 1 would therefore be the warp threshold. I'm sure Cochrane's speedometer in First Contact could probably support this further. --19:19, 28 February 2007 (UTC) ::::Right. The Enterprise is only shown as accelerating past 0.5c after Scotty acknowledges that the warp system is (barely, not guaranteed) available. Until the warp engine subsystem is shown as (possibly) available...no acceleration past 0.5c. ::::Same thing with Cochrane - until he says "Engage!" does the acceleration of the ship begin past (relatively) low sublight speeds. ::::Those are the dialogs, as filmed-Snake 20:43, 28 February 2007 (UTC) in cochrans case, i agree. but i hardly consider .5c as low sublight speed. and deciding to throw out Newton, Einstein and Hawking because of one little segment is a bit much. especially since that one segment is easily fitted into the accelleration paradigm. Kirk could have easily been asking for a specific velocity, with the unspoken order being maximum impulse thrust. why .5c is debateable, but presumably there are regulations about the velocities one can legally reach in a solar system as heavily travelled as Sol. -Mithril 04:29, 1 March 2007 (UTC) :Please note that with Cochran's ship, the Phoenix, no speed is shown until he breaks the warp barrier. Until he says "Engage!" the Phoenix is not shown, on screen, to be traveling at any speed faster than a normal rocket launched into space from planetside. :Note my belief on this "issue" - I am not attempting to reinterpret Trek science. I am going by exact evidence as filmed. No more, no less. For instance, :i hardly consider .5c as low sublight speed. and deciding to throw out Newton, Einstein and Hawking because of one little segment is a bit much :With Star Trek, none of that science applies because according to standard Newtonion / Einstien physics, a space vehicle should not be able to go faster than the speed of light. Einstein / Newtonion physics do not apply to Star Trek subspace / warp drive physics. We have seen this time and time again, in the basic operation of the warp drive itself - the warp drive alters mass across the "normal" universe. :According to filmed information, the only details we have is that the impulse engines can sustain "warp .5". The warp .8 speed is an aftereffect from the previously generated (but unbalanced) warp field in TMP. No other evidence of exact speeds have ever been shown.-Snake 15:18, 1 March 2007 (UTC) actually, the principle of warp drive is the alcubier metric, which is an outgrowth of einsteinian physics. because nothing can exceed the speed of light in 'standard' space time, it is possible to create a 'non-standard' spacetime in which you can. this loophole has been recognized in reality for some time. however, the impulse drive is not the warpdrive, it's a fusion drive, and operates within standard space time, meaning that newtonian laws of physics and the einsteinian augmentations there of do apply. the use of subspace derived effects to enhance the efficency of the drive des not change the physics. because impulse drive does not operate on the bending of space for propulsive force, the newtonian laws of motion still apply. now, if the warp drive were being used for sublight propulsion this would be a different matter. -Mithril 19:58, 1 March 2007 (UTC)